Democrats Vote to Protect Walz' Powers - Spit on Democratic Process

All 70 Democrats in the Minnesota House voted another time yesterday to spit on our democratic process by protecting Governor Walz' illegal and unconstitutional use of emergency powers. The vote was brought forward on a motion to recall House Concurrent Resolution 1 from Committee. If passed, the Resolution would need a simple majority vote in the Minnesota Senate, and then Walz' peacetime powers would be terminated.

4 Republicans were unable to sign in for yesterday's session, despite the ease in attending remote sessions. Reps Dave Baker, Glenn Gruenhagen, Joe McDonald, and Tama Theis were not present.

Here's the vote:

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  • J Bird
    commented 2021-02-01 20:57:58 -0600
    Russell Browne, thanks for taking up Lee’s assignment. So, looking at the dated executive order you cite (20-99). It states in part:

    “Places of worship, funeral homes, and other venues that offer gathering space for wedding services, funeral services, or other planned services such as worship, rituals, prayer meetings, or scripture studies, may host such wedding ceremonies, funeral services, or other services…”

    Doesn’t seem like prohibiting to me.

    Regarding other gatherings, the order encourages doing so virtually. I for one have become very adept at Zoom. People can assemble and communicate online as well as they can face-to-face.

    Ah, the “Sweden defence.” A point I’ve already debunked:
    Sweden: 67 deaths per capita
    Minnesota: 65 deaths per capita

    Doesn’t look lower to me.

    About an emergency being an “easy scapegoat” to “suspend or take away rights.” Which person are you alluding to as the “scapegoat?” I guess I can only assume you meant to say “excuse.” If my assumption is correct, then I would say what you might call an excuse, I would call a reason. And in this case the reason is clearly spelled out in Minnesota Statute:

    https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/12.31

    If you feel there is truly a prima facie case to be made here against Walz’s orders, then perhaps you should start up another lawsuit and see if you can succeed where others have already failed:

    https://www.valleynewslive.com/2020/09/03/judge-sides-with-gov-tim-walz-on-use-of-emergency-powers/

    As I told Lee Taylor: Your rights end where mine begin. Can’t stress this enough: Be patient.
  • Lance Houser
    followed this page 2021-02-01 17:12:30 -0600
  • Russell Browne
    commented 2021-02-01 16:22:28 -0600
    J Bird

    If you look at Walz Executive Order back in March, 20-99, it prohibits social gatherings and religious services. That violates the first amendment of the Constitution.

    https://mn.gov/governor/assets/EO%2020-99%20Final%20%28003%29_tcm1055-454294.pdf

    1st amendment

    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”


    Sweden had no forced house arrest, no mask enforcement, no forced business closure and no public venue/school closure yet lower deaths per capita. They have over 10 million people. I think it’s safe to say that is a large enough case study to argue for no restrictions or for every person to use his or her own judgement on how they want to conduct their life.

    Sort the table by deaths per 1M population.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?


    I’m not sure how that judge doesn’t see that the executive order I cited isn’t a blatant violation of the first amendment. An emergency has been and always will be an easy scapegoat to suspend or take away rights.
  • J Bird
    commented 2021-02-01 15:15:03 -0600
    OK, so it is pretty obvious you are unable to support your claims – and are now just repeating the same old rhetoric while hand-waving away the points I just made without thinking about them critically.

    Let’s keep this simple and go over the mental exercises I assigned you:


    First Mental exercise: Cite me the part of the constitution that has been violated by Walz’s orders

    FAILED. No citation/specific article given.

    I can give you partial credit if you can answer the following (you don’t have to agree, just answer): What makes the latest executive orders different from “normal” executive orders?


    Second mental exercise: Cite me the study that proves the death toll would have been lower had no mitigation measures been taken.

    FAILED. No study provided.

    With all respect, anecdotal evidence is not going to fly when talking about a world-wide issue. That said, thank goodness only a handful of your circle got it. If only everyone else was that lucky.


    Final mental exercise: Show me the statute you will use to “convict” me or anyone else of “high treason.”

    FAILED. Just. Failed.

    I ask again: How do you have a valid case if a judge has already taken my side:

    https://www.valleynewslive.com/2020/09/03/judge-sides-with-gov-tim-walz-on-use-of-emergency-powers/
  • Jimmy Yu
    commented 2021-02-01 12:21:13 -0600
    J Bird
    Not TRIGGERED BUT DUMB DEMONCRAT LIARS LIKE U THAT DO NOT KNOW THEIR BUTT FROM A HOLE IN THE GROUND NEED CAPS SO U KNOW WHERE POINTS ARE MADE.
    1- THERE IS NO PANDEMIC. COVID IS NOT A PANDEMIC AND NEVER HAS BEEN. I GREW UP IN A MILITARY LIFERS FAMILY AND I SERVED. I KNOW PEOPLE IN ABOUT EVERY STATE IN THIS COUNTRY. U KNOW WHAT ONLY THREE OF THEM HAVE HAD COVID IN WHAT IS NOT A YEAR AND A HALF INTO IT. AND ALL OF THEM KICKED COVIDS ASS, AND ONE IS A BROTHER OF MINE WITH HEALTH ISSUES.

    2- NO ONE AND I REPEAT NO ONE GETS KING POWERS FOR ANY REASON. STATE LAWS/CONSTITUTION HAVE TO LINE UP WITHTHECONSTITUTION. AND IN IT WE HAVE THREE BRANCHES AND U DO NOT GET TO GIVE POWERS OF ONE PART TO ANY OTHER PART. WHICH IS TREASON SHORT AND SIMPLE.

    3- FACT MASKS DO NOT WORK. ANY FREAKING PVT THATS GONE THROUGH THE GAS CHAMBER IN BASIC KNOWS THEY DO NOT WORK AND THE ONLY LEVEL OF MASK THAT WOULD WORK IS A MILITARY GAS MASK. AND SINCE U REFUSE TO LOOK AT 100 YEARS OF TESTS THAT STATE THAT THE KINDS OF MASKS UR STUPIDLY USING DO NOT EVEN SLOW THE SPREAD OF A VIRUS. AND EVEN ON THE PACKAGING WHEN THIS STARTED THE MANUFACTURE SAID SO ALSO. SO U LOSE AGAIN.

    4- NUMBERS. THE NUMBERS UR TALKING ARE NOT EVEN WORLD WIDE NUMBERS. FACTS ARE THAT TO SCARE SIMPLE BRAINED DEMONCRAT/SHEEPLE LIKE U THEY GROUP EVERY DEATH INTO COVID AND THATS NOT EVEN POSSIBLE. ONLY 16% OF THE NUMBER U SAID DIED OF COVID DID DIE OF COVID AND THATS A FACT AND ITS A DROP IN THE BUCKET.

    5- THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT SHOULD HAVE DIED ON AVG. IN A YEAR HAVE COVID HAS NOT MADE ANY DIFF. IN THAT. AND B4 U START SAYING WELL 500 MORE DIED OR SOMETHING THAT IS NOT A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER AND U HAVE A RANGE KID.

    6- IN SOME COUNTRIES RIGHT NOW MORE PEOPLE HAVE DIED OF THE COVID SHOTS THAN DIED OF COVID. AND THATS EVEN WITH HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS GOING IN AND OUT OF COUNTRIES EVERY DAY. AND ONE COUNTRY THREE TIMES THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE DIED OF THE SHOT THAN DIED OF COVID.

    SO WALZ IS LIKE U A TRAITOR, TERRORIST AND IS COMMITTING HIGH TREASON. NO ONE GETS TO GO AROUND THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH AND NO ONE NOT EVEN THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH OR JUDICIAL BRANCH ARE ALLOWED TO GO AGAINST OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. NO ONE!!!!!

    NOW PISS OFF MORON!!!!!
  • J Bird
    commented 2021-02-01 08:28:33 -0600
    Lee Taylor, I sense you are triggered – not from the abundance of ALL CAPS but the fact you posted the same thing twice.

    Honestly, all I really saw upon the first reading was: “TERRORIST…LIAR…RAT…TREASON…TROLL”

    Troll – there’s an interesting label. Never really thought simply showing people with an opposing view how their argument is flawed makes one a “troll.” I think it comes from the mindset of a typical conspiracy theorist.

    Like them, I sense you feel like you are privy to “illuminating knowledge” that somehow makes you better than all the scientists, doctors, etc. and twists reality to fit their belief. And anyone with the audacity to show where they’re wrong – well, “they’re just a TROLL.”

    I think you also think yourself as some kind of rebel, hero, or “good guy” fighting against the “evil” of Walz, the mandates, etc.” And any “troll” such as myself who come along and debunks you? Well, instead of accepting the correction, you simply point and say “SEE, there’s the evil.”

    No one is the villain in their own story. I get it.

    OK, lets take a second reading and see if there were any actual points made:

    “While the states have rights to do things to regulate themselves they cannot go against the US CONSTITUTION.”

    I agree with you. That is correct. Now, I have a mental exercise for you: Cite me the part of the constitution that has been violated by Walz’s orders. I’ll wait.

    And before you dismiss this as “garbage about needing clarification on Lockdown etc when that is common knowledge…” The state has scientists and doctors providing research and information to back up their side. All I’ve heard by and large from your side is semantics and rhetoric. Not good enough.

    So, sorry: CITIATION NEEDED. Especially when you are asserting it all somehow amounts to treason.

    From there, your post is just repeating the same point, citing reasons that aren’t reasons, and – I’ll ignore the name-calling….

    OK, you then say: “And the 400K number u us in a LIE and u know it. AT BEST those that
    Died of Covid are 16% of that number or as a rough guess 55K.”

    Debunked with a simply Google Search:

    Source: The NY Times: TOTAL as of today: 441K.

    You then say: “And that would be WAY LOWER if we did what Constitutionally and Logically
    we should have DONE. Living Life NORMALLY.”

    Again: CITATION NEEDED. Second mental exercise: Cite me the study that proves the death toll would have been lower had no mitigation measures been taken. I found one that actually showed the opposite:

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/06/09/872441984/modelers-suggest-pandemic-lockdowns-saved-millions-from-dying-of-covid-19

    Debunked. Next.

    “Masks do not WORK AT ALL”

    Ah, the classic “Masks don’t work” line. I love that line!

    I see many variants of this argument – including your point of on-package notices that ‘PROVE’ masks don’t work.

    Again, conspiracy theorists are quote-mining what they heard from dated or conspiracy site sources – and you’re falling for it.

    What they want to focus on is how cloth masks, etc. do not protect the WEARER from covid. This is actually true. But just because masks don’t work ONE WAY, doesn’t rise to ‘they don’t work, PERIOD.’

    What is ALSO true is these masks help prevent the TRANSMISSION BY THE WEARER of germs and covid. What do most civilized people do when they cough or sneeze? They cover it with something like a hanky. So masks are basically hands-free hankys you use to keep your germs to yourself. If you don’t believe me, look at the following from Florida Atlantic University:

    https://www.fau.edu/newsdesk/articles/efficacy-facemasks-coronavirus.php

    So when you say people died of covid despite wearing a mask? That’s because of anti-maskers who came in contact with them. That’s the old “if wearing a mask makes you feel safe you do you – but I’m not wearing one.” Per the above, it doesn’t work that way. And you suggested I “butt off (which I assume means ‘mind your own business’)?” There’s a common phrase: Your rights end where mine begin. Again, you don’t get to hurt others to get what you want.

    Another “point,” another debunk. Moving on…

    To your points of it’s ‘just the flu’ and ‘they recover.’ First, no, it’s not just the flu:

    https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/no-covid-19-is-not-the-flu.html

    And no, they don’t always recover. Many have lost limbs to this thing. Is that really “recovering” to you?!?

    More repeating the same rhetoric, etc. etc…but muh rights….OK….

    “U have lied ur butt off in ur comment and tried to put words in my
    mouth. I am calling u on it SnowFLAKE.”

    Mental exercise #3: Prove that I lied about ANY point I made. And remember, citations needed.

    “And everything IS easy we DEFY u DEMONCRATS and go everywhere with NO
    masks we do NO distancing ever. And if u try to make a big deal we
    arrest u for High Treason and convict u.”

    Well, it IS a big deal and many defiant businesses have and will be held accountable – whether you like it or not. Again, had they followed the rules, there would have been no “big deal” to begin with.

    Final mental excerise: Show me the statute you will use to “convict” me or anyone else of “high treason.” That would be quite the trick, seeing a judge had already taken my side:

    https://www.valleynewslive.com/2020/09/03/judge-sides-with-gov-tim-walz-on-use-of-emergency-powers/

    Again, I know you’re upset. And I know this has hit people hard – some more than others. It’s sad, and it’s not fair. But life happens. You don’t always get the feel-good ending. All we can do is adapt as best we can.

    In closing we can both agree on one thing: We want things to go back to normal. I want that as much as anyone. But let’s do it the SAFE way. Patience.
  • Jimmy Yu
    commented 2021-01-31 15:23:49 -0600
    J Bird
    And kid While the states have rights to do things to regulate themselves they cannot go against the US CONSTITUTION.
    And ur garbage about needing clarification on Lockdown etc when that is common knowledge is laughable and shows u know whats going on is Treason. And This is Unconstitutional for two reasons. WE HAVE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS period and no one gets to go against them.
    And No part of gov. gets to push off what their part of gov. exist for to anyone or any entity. Exec orders are TREASON.
    U are a TERRORIST and a LIAR like all demoncRATS seem to be now a days.
    FACTS ARE that Walz and NO ONE has the right or the Power to do ANY of
    what Walz and u dumb demoncRATS are trying to use to get around our
    REPUBLIC CONSTITUTION and LAWS.
    NO ONE gets to go around US or our Legislature FOR ANY REASON EVER.
    THERE IS NO PANDEMIC and NEVER HAS BEEN u TERRORIST LIAR!!!!
    And the 400K number u us in a LIE and u know it. AT BEST those that
    Died of Covid are 16% of that number or as a rough guess 55K. And
    that would be WAY LOWER if we did what Constitutionally and Logically
    we should have DONE.
    Living Life NORMALLY. Do NOT test to find crap and then use the
    numbers like OH that person can kill us when that is sooooo far from
    the truth.
    Masks do not WORK AT ALL to even slow down a virus. And there is 100
    years of studies that PROVE and SAY THAT. Even the manufactures
    labeling use to say that b4 Walz.
    U like to Dramatize and LIE ur Butt off. WE have the RIGHT to live
    life NORMALLY. Last I checked NOTHING was born with a mask on. Last
    I checked people get sick, some die and some do not. And last I
    checked NO ONE gets out of dying, gov. cannot stop it or slow it.
    And U are SUCH a LAIR that u caught Covid. Plus 99.83% of people that
    really do get covid and that means like show symptoms like the way we
    find out that we have the FLU. U know the way things are NORMALLY
    DONE. Well THEY RECOVER u freaking TROLL.

    Oh and 62% of people do not wear a mask. And of that 16%, the number
    that actually die of covid that roughly 55k 75% of them were wearing
    masks, 100% of them were surrounded by people wearing masks and 100%
    of them died with a mask on.

    Some one like U that needs to learn that u are not Gods gift to
    anyone. And u do not get to Trump MY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS EVER.

    U want to be scared and Stupid wear a mask or stay freaking home. U
    do not get to get tell us we cannot work, that we cannot go to the
    hospital that we have to wear a mask. That we have u let idiots like
    u shove crap up our nose or in our mouths looking LOOKING for
    something that gets LESS people SICK and that kills MILLIONS less than
    the FLU. And it takes it more than Twice as long to kill those people
    even when helped by low lives like u forcing elderly back into nursing
    homes forcing them to put on masks that only help to get people sick
    and sick from more things and then forcing them to live with new
    people that are known to have covid symptoms and to be sick with covid
    for real.

    This IS about our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS LIAR And UR a LIAR cause
    otherwise NONE of our businesses would be closed. NONE. NONE of us
    would be wearing Masks, NONE of us would be distancing Two of the very
    WORST things u could do.
    There would be NO TERRORISTIC TREATS or fines for trying to open ur
    business to make a living.

    But ur a TRAITOR, TERRORIST and a LIAR and support literally HITLER
    style actions from someone committing out right TREASON.

    U have lied ur butt off in ur comment and tried to put words in my
    mouth. I am calling u on it SnowFLAKE.

    And everything IS easy we DEFY u DEMONCRATS and go everywhere with NO
    masks we do NO distancing ever. And if u try to make a big deal we
    arrest u for High Treason and convict u.
  • Jimmy Yu
    commented 2021-01-31 15:23:49 -0600
    J Bird
    And kid While the states have rights to do things to regulate themselves they cannot go against the US CONSTITUTION.
    And ur garbage about needing clarification on Lockdown etc when that is common knowledge is laughable and shows u know whats going on is Treason. And This is Unconstitutional for two reasons. WE HAVE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS period and no one gets to go against them.
    And No part of gov. gets to push off what their part of gov. exist for to anyone or any entity. Exec orders are TREASON.
    U are a TERRORIST and a LIAR like all demoncRATS seem to be now a days.
    FACTS ARE that Walz and NO ONE has the right or the Power to do ANY of
    what Walz and u dumb demoncRATS are trying to use to get around our
    REPUBLIC CONSTITUTION and LAWS.
    NO ONE gets to go around US or our Legislature FOR ANY REASON EVER.
    THERE IS NO PANDEMIC and NEVER HAS BEEN u TERRORIST LIAR!!!!
    And the 400K number u us in a LIE and u know it. AT BEST those that
    Died of Covid are 16% of that number or as a rough guess 55K. And
    that would be WAY LOWER if we did what Constitutionally and Logically
    we should have DONE.
    Living Life NORMALLY. Do NOT test to find crap and then use the
    numbers like OH that person can kill us when that is sooooo far from
    the truth.
    Masks do not WORK AT ALL to even slow down a virus. And there is 100
    years of studies that PROVE and SAY THAT. Even the manufactures
    labeling use to say that b4 Walz.
    U like to Dramatize and LIE ur Butt off. WE have the RIGHT to live
    life NORMALLY. Last I checked NOTHING was born with a mask on. Last
    I checked people get sick, some die and some do not. And last I
    checked NO ONE gets out of dying, gov. cannot stop it or slow it.
    And U are SUCH a LAIR that u caught Covid. Plus 99.83% of people that
    really do get covid and that means like show symptoms like the way we
    find out that we have the FLU. U know the way things are NORMALLY
    DONE. Well THEY RECOVER u freaking TROLL.

    Oh and 62% of people do not wear a mask. And of that 16%, the number
    that actually die of covid that roughly 55k 75% of them were wearing
    masks, 100% of them were surrounded by people wearing masks and 100%
    of them died with a mask on.

    Some one like U that needs to learn that u are not Gods gift to
    anyone. And u do not get to Trump MY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS EVER.

    U want to be scared and Stupid wear a mask or stay freaking home. U
    do not get to get tell us we cannot work, that we cannot go to the
    hospital that we have to wear a mask. That we have u let idiots like
    u shove crap up our nose or in our mouths looking LOOKING for
    something that gets LESS people SICK and that kills MILLIONS less than
    the FLU. And it takes it more than Twice as long to kill those people
    even when helped by low lives like u forcing elderly back into nursing
    homes forcing them to put on masks that only help to get people sick
    and sick from more things and then forcing them to live with new
    people that are known to have covid symptoms and to be sick with covid
    for real.

    This IS about our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS LIAR And UR a LIAR cause
    otherwise NONE of our businesses would be closed. NONE. NONE of us
    would be wearing Masks, NONE of us would be distancing Two of the very
    WORST things u could do.
    There would be NO TERRORISTIC TREATS or fines for trying to open ur
    business to make a living.

    But ur a TRAITOR, TERRORIST and a LIAR and support literally HITLER
    style actions from someone committing out right TREASON.

    U have lied ur butt off in ur comment and tried to put words in my
    mouth. I am calling u on it SnowFLAKE.

    And everything IS easy we DEFY u DEMONCRATS and go everywhere with NO
    masks we do NO distancing ever. And if u try to make a big deal we
    arrest u for High Treason and convict u.
  • J Bird
    commented 2021-01-30 01:29:21 -0600
    Where have I been? I’ve been all over the country. This common conspriacy theory rhetoric of “tyranny” and “dictatorship” is nothing new. And no matter what state you’re in, there are certain rules that are made for “voluntary commerce,” and those rules are expected to be followed.

    For instance: You at least agree restaurant employees should wash their hands before handling and serving food, right??

    It’d be more accurate to say engaging in ‘voluntary commerce’ is a PRIVILEGE – conditional in part on following rules to keep employees and patrons safe. If you can’t – or won’t – follow the rules, you don’t get to play. End of story.

    To your pdf: No where in it does it cite the term “voluntary commerce.” Makes me wonder whether you actually READ it.

    I suppose I can safely assume that, by “Paragraphs 7 and 10” you actually mean starting on page 10. Point 7 reads in part: “DLI may
    issue citations, civil penalties, or closure orders to places of employment with unsafe or unhealthy conditions..” Part 10 reads in part: “an individual who willfully violates this Executive Order is guilty of a misdemeanor..”

    So it follows that we’re NOT talking about consequences for simply conducting business…rather conducting UNSAFE business in violation of a legal order. From the next-to-last paragraph on Page 3:

    “In Minnesota Statutes 2020, section 12.02, the Minnesota Legislature conferred upon the Governor emergency powers to “(1) ensure that preparations of this state will be adequate to deal with disasters, (2) generally protect the public peace, health, and safety..’”

    So we see my original post is correct.

    To your real world examples: None of them are examples of businesses being punished for simply running their business. Rather, they are being held accountable for violating health and saftey protocols legally put in place per the above (i.e., not requiring masks, not distancing, allowing indoor dining, etc.). Again, you break the rules, you’re held accountable. I don’t see what your problem understanding that is.

    We certainly disagree on roles of government. But I would like to think we can at least agree on common sense rules – that ANY society needs to function safely. Per your logic, we should abolish ALL speed limits on ALL roads – even residential and school zones. We should all have the “right” to drive how we want – since we know ourselves best and how to drive safely, right?? If you’re being honest, you know how flawed that would be.

    To your common conspriacy-theory argument about things like heart disease killing more than covid: Your dated CDC report speaks to the average deaths for ALL forms of heart disease. So combining SIX types of health issues under the “heart disease” umbrella, you get a bigger number than covid. Way to stack the deck.

    But – take even the MOST COMMON heart disease, CAD, that killed 365K in a recent year…that’s still less than the number covid has taken in the past year (400K).

    And to your point of “nobody is forcing you to enter the restaurant or buy anything.” If only it were that easy. It WOULD be that easy if all the anti-maskers who flock to these restaurants. etc. only went STRAIGHT to the businesses and STRAIGHT back home again. But let’s face it, they are going maskless EVERYWHERE they go. So someone like me – who NEEDS to travel for work, is bound to run into one of these people at a gas station or elsewhere. A cough or sneeze in my direction and BOOM: Despite being one of those people who didn’t like them opening, and electing to stay away, STILL caught covid BECAUSE of it.

    So, nice try, but yours is a strawman argument: Attempting to twist my point into this being the ‘criminalization of voluntary commerce.’ This isn’t about people’s RIGHTS, but about people’s LIVES. And rights are NOT absolute. You don’t get to put people at risk to get what YOU want.

    Patience. We’re getting closer and closer to putting this pandemic in the past. We’ll all get back to the way things were soon enough.
  • Russell Browne
    commented 2021-01-29 18:08:06 -0600
    J Bird do you even live in MN? Where have you been?

    Real world example of tyrannical decree: https://mn.gov/governor/assets/EO%2020-99%20Final%20%28003%29_tcm1055-454294.pdf

    (See Paragraphs 7 and 10 that outline fines and jail time for conducting voluntary commerce).

    Real world examples of MN business owners facing fines and potential jail time: https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/12/17/state-moves-to-enforce-walz-bar-order

    https://www.twincities.com/2020/12/22/fined-250-per-day-single-mom-takes-a-big-stand-for-bar-owners-in-tiny-lynd-minn/

    https://www.fox9.com/news/merrifield-restaurant-fined-10000-for-opening-against-executive-order

    https://www.kvrr.com/2020/12/11/east-grand-forks-bar-opens-to-dine-in-customers-defying-walzs-order/

    My example doesn’t gloss over anything. We fundamentally disagree on the role of government. Government exists to protect your liberty not your health. If the role of government was to protect your health cigarettes, sugar, all major fast food chains, etc… would be outlawed. You would have a government agent monitoring your daily exercise and eating habits to prevent you from dying from the leading cause of death in the US, heart disease.

    citation:

    (Real world example of heart disease as leading cause of death in the US https://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/facts.htm#:~:text=Heart%20Disease%20in%20the%20United%20States&text=About%20655%2C000%20Americans%20die%20from,1%20in%20every%204%20deaths.)

    My point is voluntary commerce is not a crime and no government has the authority to criminalize it. That violates your rights, freedom and tens of thousands of Minnesotans ability to make a living. There is no victim. I voluntarily engage in commerce with the restaurant and the owner voluntarily opens their doors to the public. Nobody is forcing you to enter the restaurant or buy anything. In a free society you have the ability to make those choices for yourself.
  • J Bird
    commented 2021-01-29 17:00:55 -0600
    Fine example, Russell. One question: Are there any REAL WORLD examples of what you describe with said example? Citation, please.

    And your example glosses over, actually it flatly IGNORES one key element: The REASON for the intervention against the business. You seem to suggest that it’s selective and “singling out” small business.

    Back to what I said before: Rules were put in place in an EMERGENCY situation to protect people. If a business BREAKS said rules, then they SHOULD be held accountable. You’re trying to make them out as if they are somehow the victim. Rather dubious to say the least.

    Lee Taylor, to your throwing the “US Constiution” at the argument:

    States are afforded the ability to draft THEIR OWN constitutions. Their OWN laws. Their OWN mandates, etc. And no, I checked: Nowhere in the Constitution does it state “the right of the people to go to a bar or restaurant during a virus outbreak shall not be infringed.” The baseless “Constitution” argument is an attempt to vilify elected leaders. Don’t fall for it.

    In case you don’t belive me:

    https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/12.31
  • Kristy Doberstein
    followed this page 2021-01-29 16:31:01 -0600
  • Lee Taylor
    commented 2021-01-29 16:00:26 -0600
    J Bird
    What Walz and u demoncRATS are trying to get away with IS TREASON. It IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL party because it goes around the legislature and it is trying to take away OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

    ONLY ONE person in this country was ever offered King Powers and that was Washington. He said NO. Why cause they had just won a war against a king and knew that could happen in America.
    So J Bird NO ONE in this country is Allowed to do this u have to have the Legislature okay it which means WE have to okay it

    And Ur a TRAITOR and a TERRORIST for siding with Walz and demoncrats against WE THE PEOPLE The US CONSTITUTION And Businesses in this state.

    NONE of u that support walz in any way should be allowed to Buy ANYTHING AT ALL!!! U should not be allowed in Any business u should have ur elect., water cut off, no food no internet no phone no buying anything online no gov. help no hospital.

    WE HAVE THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to live life NORMALLY and no one was born with a mask, no one distances normally

    ANYONE that sides with Walz on ANYTHING should be thrown in gitmo with him and all demoncrats and anyone that supported this at all with their staffs and found guilty of their HIGHEST of TREASON and get their perm address change from the US CONSTITUTION!!!
  • Russell Browne
    commented 2021-01-29 15:58:41 -0600
    J Bird

    “Restrict Other’s Freedom”

    In the current scenario under the “emergency” powers would be physical or financial threats or penalties.

    (threatening fines, issuing fines or threatening to or sending men with badges and guns to your business to FORCIBLY PREVENT via arrest, kidnapping/jailing you and your patrons from engaging in VOLUNTARY commerce).

    Example:

    J Bird owns a restaurant, I eat at J bird’s restaurant, People/entity with badges/guns issues decree that if we continue our voluntary commerce they will financially or physically harm you or me. Keep in mind anybody who is scared to come to J Bird’s restaurant doesn’t have to come. They can stay home. The force is one-sided.

    “shutting down”

    This one is self-explanatory. See previous example.
  • J Bird
    commented 2021-01-29 15:01:48 -0600
    Russell Browne, can you elaborate on what you mean by ‘restricting others freedom?’ And I’m not sure what is meant by “shutting down” small businesses.

    If you mean the recent actions against those businesses that intentionally defied the mandates set in place for health and saftey reasons, then that is NOT the state’s fault: Those businesses did that to themselves. In ANY free society you HAVE to have rules. Had they followed the rules, they would have NOT been shut down. Period.
  • Russell Browne
    commented 2021-01-29 14:40:29 -0600
    Sounds like J bird’s brain gets a thorough, daily washing from pharmaceutically funded MSM channels. J Bird you and the politicians who voted to restrict others freedom can barricade yourselves in your homes and stay there for all I care. Leave the rest of us alone. Just because something is legal doesn’t make it moral. I don’t understand the whole bureaucracy but even IF these politicians did “follow the rules” the resulting actions or force they place on their constituents are tyrannical.
    If tyrants legalize stealing from and shutting down small businesses simply for engaging in commerce that is immoral and makes civil disobedience the only alternative.
  • J Bird
    commented 2021-01-29 13:24:58 -0600
    Walz’s peacetime powers are in place BECAUSE of the democratic process. The legislature gave them to him, and can take them away.

    Thank goodness the majority understand the importance of maintaining an agile stance to take quick action to mitigate this ongoing issue.

    I understand we all want to go back to normal, but now’s not the time. All are free to disagree with the emergency powers remaining intact, but your disagreeing does not equate to it being “illegal and unconstitutional.”

    If it WERE as illegal and unconstitutional as some WANT it to be, the courts would have struck this down a long time ago. The fact they haven’t speaks volumes.
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  • Jake Duesenberg
    published this page in News 2021-01-29 07:58:48 -0600